Art and Protest Revisited – interview with Dan Perjovschi

Published on Artmargins

I spoke with Dan Perjovschi, one of the most well-known artists living in Romania , about his political activities against the Rosia Montana cyanide gold mining project (headed by Gabriel Resources, a Canadian Corporation). On August 27 a law was passed in a closed-door session of parliament to go forward with the project despite 15 years of debate and opposition. In response, starting on September 1, protests against this law, the project, and the corruption linked with this project have erupted around the country and internationally, with tens of thousands of people from different political backgrounds (including progressive and nationalist) galvanized into action. The demands of the protesters are that the law be rescinded and the ministers responsible for pushing it forward, and accepting payment from Gabriel Resources, fired.

Scene from protest against cyanide mining of Rosia Montana, Romania. Protesters are displaying signs with drawings made by Dan Perjovschi, 2013. Image courtesy of the artist.

OS: Dan, what do you think brings all these protesters together as a unified front against this particular initiative, while other protests against political corruption, and even what was called a coup in 2012, did not have the same force?

DP: In only one year, the current government (considered center-left it was brought into power after the protests in 2012) managed to do everything possible to piss people off. I was also involved in a student Occupy movement (in Cluj and Bucharest ) in March. The students’ requests were legitimate (they asked for space for debate, a committed budget, etc..). The government totally ignored this… And then, when this law custom-made for a corporation was given the greelight, young people went to the streets. The core group of the protesters are activists who have been fighting this project for 15 years. I also think the theme is precise enough (stop the cyanide in Rosia Montana ) and universal enough (nature, our mountains, our country, anti-corporation) to unite yuppies, anti-capitalists, anarchists, artists, bike lovers etc…

OS: As an artist you have always been politically engaged and have made work that through the use of irony and humor has criticized specific issues. One can say that current events are the material out of which you make your work. Recently you have devoted your activism to the Rosia Montana cause by posting drawings specific to this issue on your Facebook page (which is followed by thousands) and sharing documentation of the protests from various parts of the world. What impact have you had and is it realistic to think that artists can have an impact on political events through their artwork?

DP: For some time, I have been sliding from the institution wall to facebook walls. I found it to be an interesting space. My drawings mean something beyond “art”. I can have a more objective and precise look at the events I comment. During the student occupy protest, I posted a drawing and if somebody on the ground identified with it, he/she could use it. The students downloaded them and put them all around the amphitheatre they occupied. It was one of my best “shows”. Now with Rosia, I also deliver some statements to help people to focus on the issues. They replicate them on big banners or download them and stick them on their T-shirts. Excellent! I really feel I have a role. I am not on the front lines (this is not my revolution), but I can support and show some solidarity with this new generation. In January 2012 the protest was quickly politically manipulated. This time almost all media was bought by the Rosia Montana Gold Corporation (Gabriel Resources) so at first they turned a blind eye… Then when social media took the news and spread it, the old media had to report. And they tried to throw dirt at the protesters but it did not stick. The protesters outsmarted the “power” using bikes to move around, plastic bottles to drum in the big boulevards and kept everything peaceful and creative to psychologically unarm the police.

OS: How do you deal with copyright issues, or do you prefer the copyleft approach? How does your distribution model affect your practice? (also on facebook)

DP: This time, for these protests, it’s copyleft but only for activist and communication purposes. However, if I see somebody selling a T-shirt I will sue them. All rights for the drawings on this topic are for the association Alburnus Maior located in Rosia Montana who has been fighting the BIG Company since the year 2000.

Scene from protest against cyanide mining of Rosia Montana, Romania. Protesters are displaying signs with drawings made by Dan Perjovschi, 2013. Image courtesy of the artist.

OS: The majority of funding for culture and the arts in Romania is foreign and it has not been contested by the cultural community. Why, then, do you think that slogans about “foreigners” stealing Romanian gold have appeared now? Do you feel this fear of the foreigner is reasonable in our globalized economic system? And why do you feel that this anti-foreigner sentiment is coming out in this context more than in other infrastructure projects?

DP: These kinds of slogans are marginal. And they are more against the idea of a super powerful corporation who can buy a town and some mountains and then do whatever they like with them. The protesters are very mixed. Some are very nationalist people (“ Romania above all, the rest of the world is against us”), but there are also youngsters who discover the joy of being “Romanian” and being among “the people” and “we are the people”. There are a lot of flags at the protests. I am not necessary very happy with this section especially with people wearing a forehead tri-color band (there was a recent very nationalist episode symbolised by this item) but I accept the fact that some of the people find a motif to be proud again of being Romanian. It’s being a long time with only bad news about ourselves (we cannot do that, we can’t do this, we did again a stupid thing, only in Romania things don’t work, we cannot make it, etc.) Artists in the protest are more visible sometimes due to their smart, or well-designed protest signs but they are a minority.  See, my generation was fighting communism (even after communism was theoretically gone…) and this new generation criticizes capitalism because this is what they experience and live every day… This attitude may sadden or infuriate their parents and grandparents but it is true and valid. Where I see residue of communism and practices of camouflage, they see neoliberalism and the society for the few and not for the all. They have all the right in the world to be critical about what society we, of the previous generation, prepared for them..

The majority of protesters are young professionals, people with jobs in the liberal economy, working at home or even in multinationals – people with a safe income. They are not against “capitalism” per se (as some of the artists or extreme left activists are – some even displaying some very stupid Mao slogans) but against corruption, against the weak state and the official ignorance of the state of law. They are arguing that no one (no company, government, president) is above the law. They are right.
But there is a general discontent with the way Romanian capitalism is going…. It is a mistrust of foreign companies who came to bribe officials to do their stuff and then relocate in Africa and leave behind some disaster… there is the same opaque policy implemented by the government and big private companies who prefer making their deals behind closed doors. People have had enough of this…

OS: There have also been discussions that George Soros (who also had a large stake in Gabriel Resources but also invested substantially in Romanian NGOs and culture) is a conspirator in the Rosia Montana project despite donating money to organizations that oppose the project. What do you make of these accusations?

DP: It seems Soros has some stocks…or is involved in an investment fund that has stocks. I do not care. Since 1990, every time there is a protest in this country, there are accusations that some Hungarian or Jew is behind it (in order to appeal to xenophobic sentiment in Romania and discourage protests.) I am so sick of seeing the same trick apply to me 23 years later (we have been accused of being paid by bloody capitalists). Romanians are very skilful at passing the blame onto others and they love conspiracy theories. Romania itself is a conspiracy theory.

Scene from protest against cyanide mining of Rosia Montana, Romania. Protesters are displaying signs with drawings made by Dan Perjovschi, 2013. Image courtesy of the artist.

OS: What are some alternatives to the mining proposal pushed forward so aggressively by Gabriel Resources? What options for jobs do the people in that region have, many who complain that they have been unemployed for more than a decade since negotiations over the project began and mining stopped? They feel that the government and others who protest in their name don’t seem to consider their fate.

DP: The mining at Rosia stopped in 2006. Before that it had stopped here and there and everywhere because it was not economically viable (due to old technology and bad management). In Romania, miners were always used by the communist and post-communist governments as a force-based argument (undercover paramilitary force). They were being paid by the communists triple, or even more, the wage of a normal worker. It is a hard and high risk job, but it was also a political decision. In time these privileges decreased dramatically. When mines were closed, miners got a payoff of 10 salaries (a huge sum). But they spent the money and because of no other governmental plan the situation got nightmarish. But in a sense they took the deal.
There are villages and towns in the Apuseni mountains that don’t live off of mining. Some successfully transitioned to new industries (wood, tourism, mountain agriculture). But at Rosia Gabriel Resources forced the local authority to pass a law declaring the area mono-industrial (only mining), therefore if you want to open a small hotel or cultivate bees you cannot. This is unacceptable.
I read proposals made by a very serious institution recommending that the region should be declared a mining park (some of the tunnels date to 2000 years ago, to the Roman Empire ) and get money from EU to support this. It sounds very reasonable.
I was in Rosia on the occasion of a new music festival (which turned into a camp for activism and workshops called Fan Fest (Hay Fest). Several thousand youngsters from all over Europe came here . Meantime there is a prestigious architecture summer school going on where young architects learn to properly restore houses that are 200 years old, etc. You can turn the area (which is truly beautiful) into a grand school about mining, architecture and nature.

OS: How do you feel about Facebook’s copyright policies regarding posted images and putting your drawings, that in other contexts are original art, in that space where the copyright no longer belongs to you?

DP: I do not know the policy of facebook exactly. But I do not post everything I do. And the drawings I did about Rosia I declare them copyleft so everybody could use them (noncommercially). And I think we exaggerate the situation with copyright. Anyway it no longer belongs to me entirely, I share the copyright with Facebook. I will use my images and my drawings in my future projects and I just wait for Mr. Zuckerberg to sue me and make me globally famous.
I don’t feel comfortable with this, but is it not the same when some photographer shoots my wall and that becomes “his” work? Kind of funny for me to ask him permission to use my drawings… I tell everybody who owns works of mine, they own a hard-copy version of the drawing because the drawing is a concept I will keep using over and over until I die.

Scene from protest against cyanide mining of Rosia Montana, Romania. Protesters are displaying signs with drawings made by Dan Perjovschi, 2013. Image courtesy of the artist.

OS: Has your work on behalf of various causes (not only Rosia Montana ) and the dissemination of your drawings through facebook increased awareness of your artistic practice?

DP: I have no idea if it matters more for other people. But it matters to me. Somehow my drawings found a new and more truthful life. There is something very artificial with the white cube and the attached restaurant. I want my drawings to be free and active. If people identify with them I am so very happy.

OS: Some of the drawings you made for Rosia Montana have been used in the protests and have been photographed and shared online, making them the most recognizable feature of the protests besides the Romanian flag. What do you think about the possibility of your drawings becoming the “logo” of the protests?

DP: I have a contribution (which is interesting more for the people abroad), but it is not my graphics that dominate the visual discourse of the protests. It is the red-green logo of the campaign made by some good artists and designers from Cluj and the association from Rosia Montana itself. It is the slogan “United will save”… And there are also people with texts and big banners. They are the “face” of the protest.
My drawings are appealing to “intellectuals” or “arty” types, maybe to “clever” people, and not so directly to the masses. But I am happy with the place they occupy here and there… I think it is a big deal to bridge high and low culture. Years ago in order to criticize me, an article in the New York Times stated about my MOMA project that it was a crowd pleaser. I was not offended. I was pleased. Indeed. I can show the same drawing in the MOMA, Tate or Pompidou or in the middle of a protest in Gesi Park or Piata Universitatii in Bucharest . Ain’t this splendid?

OS: I find your political debates and discussions with your thousands of Facebook friends really interesting – it’s something that doesn’t happen in the States very much. Why do you think Facebook is used by your Romanian “friends” in such a meaningful way while in the States, and maybe in other parts of Western Europe, like in Switzerland for ex., people are so bland and unengaged?

DP: Maybe because we did not have a “public space”. We did not have places to meet and talk and argue… or maybe the wind of the (Arab) spring came to us in the autumn… We are part of this change. Media is going online. Shopping is going online. Political debates are going online…Everything is going online… These protests are the first sizeable ones since the 90ties… People here are slow and need an extra kick to make them indignant.

OS: What do you think will happen with the mining project and the current government that has accepted bribes from Gabriel Resources to push the project forward? From previous experience, one bad government got replaced by another equally bad or worse government, so is this the future here too?

DP: I think they will not do it. But if they pass the law (custom-made for one corporation and for one mining project) there will be extreme protests and violence. And then you do not know where this will go. There are people at Rosia who do not want to sell their house and do not want to move. They are capable of ultimate resistance. People have had it with this government and are just waiting for an occasion to express their anger. I really do not think it is worth it to erase 4 mountains, to displace hundreds of people, and enrage the young generation just to place 20 tons of gold in the National Bank Reserve…It is not worth it!

Advertisements

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s